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Invisibility texture pack should be against the rules

Should the texture pack be considered Tracers?

  • Yes,

  • No,


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_MrSeven

Active Member
MVP+
If you believe that using a texture pack that shows invisibility isn't exactly like Tracers, then you're stupid. If i'm invisible using game mechanics and someone needs to get an outside game mechanic to be able to see me that is practically the same as tracers. This texture pack should be considered a hack, especially when the cops that have tier III horse use it and you can never run away. A lot of players find this annoying and shouldn't be allowed.
If you think the Invisibility Texture pack is complete bullshit and shouldn't be allowed then up vote this post and leave your opinion.
 
Or decrease the speed on horses, again. They still are way too O.P. allowed officers to catch anyone they are chasing, no matter the distance... It is entirely unfair as 1 single cop can camp the entire criminal population if they have a t3 horse.
 

ShadySuits

Member
MVP+
100% Cheating. If I can't change some textures that lets me see bases underground AKA, Xray Texture Packs, Then these cops shouldnt be allowed to alter their texture packs to give them an obvious advantage while being a cop. It's just not fair.
 
You can't even get out of spawn anymore, its like a 90-10 in favour of getting caught
 

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krom

Well-Known Member
MVP+
the idea that you can't just run w/o any boosts is fair and undebatable.
but if both speed and invis give you just a slightly better chance to succeed, it gets almost impossible.

even for well experienced players it is more than a bit of a challenge under the given circumstances, especially with such a huge amount of feds.
 

Dakotaa

Owner
Staff member
Owner
Or decrease the speed on horses, again. They still are way too O.P. allowed officers to catch anyone they are chasing, no matter the distance... It is entirely unfair as 1 single cop can camp the entire criminal population if they have a t3 horse.
Nobody is stopping you from buying your own horse. Police can not get horses that are any faster than druggies can get.

Literally X-RAY for cops.
Literally not. It does not allow you to see through walls.

You can't even get out of spawn anymore, its like a 90-10 in favour of getting caught
This thread was made during a 2x all drug booster. It's not surprising that there would be many cops online, camping doors, with such a booster active. Solution: Wait until the booster is over if you can't handle an influx of cops during boosters.


This resource pack does not give police a speed advantage. If they have a horse, you can also get a horse to be the same speed as them or faster. Use speed potions, jump boost to get onto the trees, etc. Use a splash potion of speed on your horse, making it faster than any cop can get, as they are not allowed to use potions.

This resource pack is not similar to tracers or xray; it neither gives the person the ability to see the exact direction/angle that a player is at, or show players through wall.

This resource pack is in no way different from resource packs that change visiblity in other ways, for example, low fire resource packs, and nobody has ever complained about someone using those.
 

Zhihu

Well-Known Member
2017 Map Founder
Contributor
MVP+
This isn't that big of an advantage, invisibility isn't full proof...

Get some good selling strategies; especially during a 2x booster. King0fK1ngs sold 30 inventories of bread and got caught 4 times.




 
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krom

Well-Known Member
MVP+
This isn't that big of an advantage, invisibility isn't full proof...

Get some good selling strategies; especially during a 2x booster. King0fK1ngs sold 30 inventories of bread and got caught 4 times.



isn't that pretty much the definition of tracers?
 

_MrSeven

Active Member
MVP+
Nobody is stopping you from buying your own horse. Police can not get horses that are any faster than druggies can get.


Literally not. It does not allow you to see through walls.


This thread was made during a 2x all drug booster. It's not surprising that there would be many cops online, camping doors, with such a booster active. Solution: Wait until the booster is over if you can't handle an influx of cops during boosters.


This resource pack does not give police a speed advantage. If they have a horse, you can also get a horse to be the same speed as them or faster. Use speed potions, jump boost to get onto the trees, etc. Use a splash potion of speed on your horse, making it faster than any cop can get, as they are not allowed to use potions.

This resource pack is not similar to tracers or xray; it neither gives the person the ability to see the exact direction/angle that a player is at, or show players through wall.

This resource pack is in no way different from resource packs that change visiblity in other ways, for example, low fire resource packs, and nobody has ever complained about someone using those.

Okay, Dakotaa maybe you don't see how this is an unfair advantage for cops, considering its an outside source and not a game mechanic that has already been made into the game. As you can see your player base thinks this is a stupid texture pack. So by allowing this to continue you are making your player base to become angry and will be upset with you. If you won't make this texture pack illegal, you have to at least give the player base more ways to get out of spawn or away from spawn. Because right now this is a stupid texture pack which is practically tracers.
 

Dakotaa

Owner
Staff member
Owner
Okay, Dakotaa maybe you don't see how this is an unfair advantage for cops, considering its an outside source and not a game mechanic that has already been made into the game. As you can see your player base thinks this is a stupid texture pack. So by allowing this to continue you are making your player base to become angry and will be upset with you. If you won't make this texture pack illegal, you have to at least give the player base more ways to get out of spawn or away from spawn. Because right now this is a stupid texture pack which is practically tracers.
Players are going to be salty no matter what when they get frisked. This method does not break any of the server rules in any way, so we have no issue with it. As I said, it's the exact same idea as a low fire resource pack, which gives an advantage in PvP.
 

NeliDearest

Retired Staff
Retired Staff
Contributor II
MVP++
shrug close enough
Not really.. With tracers it would be way easier to see people. I think the texture pack is not that big of a deal because it just helps the cops focus on the invis particles. It would be way different if someone used tracers, that is why people get banned for them.
 

KatarinaCouteau

Active Member
Outstanding Forum Contributor
This is the same sort of thing as turning your gamma up so it looks completely bright - slightly modifying the games original options/files out of game, and is allowed, even though we have things like the Mining and Scuba helmet. The difference here is that invisibility texture packs directly benefit one group while making it a little harder for the others, and so people feel it's unfair. While everyone can turn their gamma up or hold down their mouse button, when selling drugs, only cops can benefit from invisibility packs, which is why no one complains about low fire or gamma.

I definitely agree that if these texture packs acted like tracers, and were very obvious, they shouldn't be allowed, however from what I'm seeing, the advantage seems pretty mild. The little dust-like thing that appears at one's feet in vanilla minecraft when people run with potion effects is much more obvious, at least in these videos, than the floating particles.

I think the problem lies more with the influx of cops, and those with super fast horses, as it's the start of the map, and the awkward ways of getting out of spawn. This map, getting out of spawn is harder, as there are a bunch of hedges, the jungle is farther from spawn than last map's park, you can fall in the water of the little water-lined shrubbery and be unable to get out. I wouldn't be opposed to putting barrier blocks above that damn water, or maybe a ladder! Maybe it's just me being horrible, but I fall in it all the time, even when not selling drugs. The tunnel is super camp-able and easy for cops to hide in, and the upper walkway is difficult to sprint up the whole way.

People can't complain in the same way about horses (though I will forever non-righteously complain about this, as cops should be jailed because they prevent us drug dealers from giving happy pills to the world) because druggies can get them too. This invisibility = tracers deal is something that automatically seems like a hack. If cops didn't have horses, anyone could easily outrun them and wouldn't care too much about tracers because on foot, drug sellers have Speed II and cops have nothing but the ability to camp doorways and corners.

I do find cops frustrating, and with this many, more stressful than fun to outrun, but I think there are other reasons for this, and other steps we can take, rather than disallowing a texture pack, to improve running drugs for everyone.
 

TopTierQueer

New Member
So I've not been on this server long so forgive me if some of the information in this isn't logical for a more seasoned players. Also, this was written at 12:30 am so forgive any grammatical errors (like excessive commas). This will be presented in a few points with relating information to give off what I feel is the facts but are mostly just my opinion on the matter because I feel getting as many opinions as possible is important in such a discussion. I will try my best to not take sides in the matter and let you draw your own conclusion.

1) (and I'm not kissing up here but this needs to be established) if Dakota says it's allowed then it's allowed, that's the end all be all it's their server they do what they want and I do not intend or direct any ill will or anger towards any staff. Despite this however, it cannot be denied that by making foolish decisions staff side will drive players away, not everybody (probably nobody over this alone honestly) will leave but it also cannot be denied that giving a dictatorship feel to players makes them enjoy it less.

2) It also cannot be denied that this issue isn't as simple as "it's essentially tracers" because it isn't, it's chams. "Well whats chams?" If you know the answer to this question skip to my third point. Chams essentially changes the color of the texture of entities like players and mobs to make them MUCH easier to spot, especially from afar the major point being that it doesn't work through walls.

3) So let's draw some similarities between Zhihus' video and the texture pack shown in it (which I will just refer to as "the texture pack"), and a chams hack. The texture pack and the chams hack both 1) Cannot give players position through walls. 2) Give a full outline of the players position within line of sight and their respective hitbox. 3) Gives information that you would not have without them. 4) Can be detected by requiring suspected players to gives screen shots of the F3 or resource pack menus. The only real difference being that the chams cheat will always give the players position if they are in line of sight, whereas the texture pack only works on invis players.

4) With this information, let's imagine a scenario. Imagine a player coded a custom minecraft version which only had the texture pack loaded, but bound to a key to toggle it on and off quickly. This player then decides to do the same thing, but with a chams cheat bound the same way. What is the difference between the versions? Of course the chams will always give you an easier time seeing other players, but that difference rarely comes into play as a police officer unless your targets in the jungle which will likely give the player cover anyway removing line of sight and removing the chams.

5) With this I can imagine you know where I'm heading. In my opinion a texture pack that gives a player a comparable advantage to a known illegal cheat, that would get you banned for using if you were caught, is just as bad as the cheat. And by the way, no it isn't tracers or ESP so stop saying that, it makes all of us look bad.

6) However, I can see the differences and concluding somebody would go out of their way to make a version for a texture pack is a little absurd so instead of only pointing out whats wrong, I think it's important to also point out some ways a compromise can be reached. (Which will also be in a numbered list 'cause I like 'em)

1) Give more paths out of spawn or drug dealers for players to go to so we aren't funneled into a single side of the map (And yes I know about Estabon but I hope you understand what I mean by just drug dealers).
2) Give a larger safe zone for leaving spawn or getting to the dealers (I honestly think police shouldn't be allowed in the trailer park but that might just be me)
3) Giving a buff to jobs. A buff to an alternate path is the same as a nerf to another, in essence indirectly nerfing police by buffing ways to get money by going around their jurisdiction.
4) (Possibly a little weird but stick with me) a type of "immunity" from police for a short time which could be given by surprise in a vote crate, or as a lucky reward for voting. The major point being to not make it an item or the rich will get enough to make them gods over our boys in blue. This would give more incentive to vote and use your keys instead of just hocking them.

Thank you for reading my incoherent ramblings, I hope it was at the very least insightful to some people and I wish you all a good day! Happy growing!
 

Spalw

Retired Staff
Retired Staff
I echo Dakota's opinion regarding the matter.

I think that this thread is done at this point so I'd like like to leave a thought -

We encourage suggestions and are always willing to hear what you have to say, I'd just like to ask that you begin these discussions with an open mind and be prepared to understand the other points of view. This thread specifically , I think was asking the wrong question.

It is a silly question to ask whether or not the texturepack is the equivalent of tracers, because it clearly isn't at all.
You may have gotten more a useful or informative discussion if you had asked "What is there that can be done about this" or "Who else shares my opinion about this".

It is clear from this thread that we need to work on something, because there is a significant group of people who are unhappy with something. This doesn't necessarily mean that we will change any rules or even any gameplay features, but something needs to be better communicated at least.

As always, please continue to leave us feedback
 

sky

Well-Known Member
VIP
MVP+
In my opinion as someone thats played on here for 2 years or so,

it would be a good step banning this and all, but actually being able to enforce this as a rule under current rules would be hard as Mc-drugs doesn't screenshare people.

they ban you if they think you're hacking (problem with this is if the person tries to appeal, they cant exactly defend themselves) of course the counter argument is that people can inject clients that can be wiped while in game but if you know how to screenshare more in depth you can find most of these injectable clients. Also to note because its 1.12 there are less injectable clients.
Cops could use texture packs that fully color an invisible player and they would definitely get away with it if they arent spot on blatant.

As for encouragement for suggestions I havent been able to discuss without being bashed on in the past. I took dakotaas stance in mind and learned a couple things while discussing, wasnt being bias but was still being made fun of for discussing why I thought a change would be a bad idea.


I was also told a lot of my suggestions in the past wouldnt be put in or even considered by dakotaa and proceeded to see a majority of them in the current map. That left me with a sour tongue and im now reluctant to try to better the server or give my stance on something
 
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